In the Unbundled Attorney Mastermind podcast, we interview our provider attorneys and leading experts in the legal industry to identify best practices for fielding internet generated leads. We also discuss how to ethically and effectively offer unbundled legal services and other affordable options in your legal services practice.
28 NOVEMBER 2018
Should You Keep Your Lawyer Job, Start a Solo Practice, or Build Your Own Law Firm? A Case Study of the Journey Down Each Path, Lessons Learned Along the Way, and How to Make $500-$750 Per Hour Providing Unbundled Legal Services
Episode 55: Should You Keep Your Lawyer Job, Start a Solo Practice, or Build Your Own Law Firm? A Case Study of the Journey Down Each Path, Lessons Learned Along the Way, and How to Make $500-$750 Per Hour Providing Unbundled Legal Services
Dallas, TX attorney Clay Wilkinson’s journey in the practice of law started with a partnership in a law firm, then he became an associate with a large firm, and now he has a new role running his own solo practice. Along the way he has experienced what life is like as a lawyer in these different roles and learned the advantages and disadvantages in each position. Today Clay joins the show and shares the “why” behind each of his decisions, lessons learned, and what finally led to his success as a solo legal practitioner. We take a deep dive into how he has successfully developed unbundled services during his 5+ years as an Unbundled Attorney. Clay shares real-life experiences with clients that involved both uncontested and contested legal cases. He provides a detailed breakdown of how to deliver unbundled services for both kinds of clients, the rates for each, and systems he uses to establish his effective hourly rate at $500-$750 per hour. We also give an overview of the legal technology he integrates into his high-volume practice, and how he streamlines booking appointments and the delivery of his services.
To read a complete transcript of this interview, click here
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- Why there was a delay in release of our new podcast episodes and a summary of Unbundled Attorney’s podcast schedule going forward
- Clay’s philosophy of practicing law with integrity and in genuine service to others, and how this influences his decisions
- An overview of how Clay transitioned from being a partner with a new small law firm, to his position as an associate at a large firm, to finally running his own solo practice and what he learned from these experiences
- The importance of growing a practice gradually and not taking on too many clients in the early stages
- Why Clay decided to temporarily reduce the number of clients he was receiving from Unbundled Attorney and focus on remaining a solo practitioner instead of building a small law firm
- The many ways lawyers can grow and scale their practice, including hiring staff, the use of contract lawyers and associates, and how to decide what path is right for you
- Clay’s analysis of the benefits and costs from working for a law firm versus running your own practice based on his own experience in both roles
- How Clay kept a low overhead by working from home and using virtual office spaces when he left his job to begin a solo practice
- What made Clay decide to hire contract lawyers and why this was a win-win relationship for both him and the contract lawyers
- A comprehensive overview of unbundled service options Clay provides that enables him to tailor his services to his clients’ budgets
- Two real-life examples of clients with uncontested and contested legal issues that Clay helped with unbundled services
- Why Clay is able to make $500-$750 per hour delivering unbundled services with a flat rate instead of a billable hours model
- A walk-through that details how Clay delivers unbundled services from start to finish, including how he uses an outsourced virtual paralegal for document preparation
- Best practices that set boundaries with unbundled clients, and how to effectively craft limited scope retainer agreements
- The difference between vertical and horizontal unbundled services, and how they enable creative and flexible delivery of legal services for your clients
- Why providing unbundled services substantially reduces your firm’s accounts receivables
- How Clay uses Google Voice and Calendly to streamline appointment scheduling with prospective clients
- The potential impact of unbundling on the increase in pro se litigants filing in family court and why Clay has become passionate about working with Unbundled Attorney and being a part of this movement
- And much more…
Resources Mentioned in This Episode
- Google Voice
- Forrest “Woody” Mosten - Unbundled Legal Services Training
- Forrest Mosten’s Unbundled Attorney Podcast Interview
If you enjoy this podcast, please head over to iTunes, subscribe to the show, and leave us a review. We love hearing from our listeners and look forward to reading your feedback!
For more information about Unbundled Attorney and how our exclusive, unbundled leads can help grow your practice, visit: https://www.unbundledattorney.com
15 JULY 2018
Educating a New Generation of Solo Attorneys: The Exciting Future of Legal Incubators and a Practical Overview of the Business Model of Unbundling Legal Services
San Diego, CA attorney, Lee Vernon, is a product of a legal incubator provided by the Thomas Jefferson School of Law. The incubator provided mentoring from attorneys experienced in the practice of law, affordable office space, and the opportunity to collaborate with other attorneys. In addition, Lee was exposed to the concept of unbundled legal services and how it is used to help individuals unable to afford traditional retainer fees. Once Lee launched his solo practice and started working with Unbundled Attorney, he developed a complete business model built around delivering both full representation and unbundled legal services to his clients. Today Lee joins the show to explain why he made the decision to offer unbundled services. He gives an overview of the unbundled service options he provides, the price points for each, as well as the systems and processes he has developed to deliver them efficiently and profitably. Lee also discusses some of the major misconceptions about unbundled services, and why unbundling can positively impact the access to justice problem as these misconceptions are debunked and more lawyers across the country begin offering these service options in their practice.
07 JUNE 2018
How to Instill Confidence, Trust and Loyalty With Your Immigration Clients in a Political Climate Characterized by Fear and Uncertainty
When you hear Charles Lee discuss his immigration practice, it becomes abundantly clear that he takes his role as an attorney and advocate for his immigration clients very seriously. Recent changes in our immigration laws and the political climate created by a new administration have introduced a great deal of fear and uncertainty in the hearts and minds of immigrants in the United States. Today Charles joins the show and talks about how he has successfully adapted his practice to overcome these challenges. He also shares some of the beliefs and values that have become the foundation of his practice, and how he communicates them to his clients to win their confidence and trust. We also discuss the legal technology and flexible payment options that enable him to make his services more affordable and profitable.
11 MAY 2018
Ardy Pirnia and John Ibrahim are Beverly Hills and Orange County, California family law and personal injury lawyers. You’d expect firms from their regions to be charging high end retainer fees of between $5000 - $10,000+ and hourly rates of $350/hour and more. Instead, Ardy and John have built highly profitable practices offering unbundled and limited scope services with starting fees ranging from as low as $500 - $1500. Today they join the show to share the types of unbundled service options they offer, and when and how they deliver them. They explain why they believe unbundled services give more people access to legal help who otherwise couldn’t afford it, and why offering these options has been a very profitable business decision.
11 APRIL 2018
Jacob Sapochnick is a San Diego immigration attorney who has created a highly successful online legal brand. He has over 140,000 followers on Facebook, thousands of subscribers on YouTube, and receives invitations regularly to appear on national media. He has become an expert on how to position and promote your firm and its content on the internet effectively. Today, Jacob joins us to share exactly how he has built his massive following, and what he does day to day to curate content, and distribute it in a way that captures new clients. We also discuss how he effectively manages a high volume of new clients by leveraging his staff which includes 6 attorneys, 15 support staff, and cutting edge legal technology. He shares a number of ways you can systematically scale your practice, such as creating video training modules that show your team how to execute their tasks and processes efficiently.
15 MARCH 2018
A Comprehensive Breakdown of the Benefits and Ethical Considerations for Providing Unbundled Legal Services in Immigration and Family Law
We are excited to announce the release of our first video podcast episode! We traveled to Seattle, WA recently to film this interview with Sou Bounlutay and Sunny Awla. Both Sou and Sunny are successful Unbundled Attorneys who have a great deal of experience providing unbundled legal services in the immigration and family law space. They share an informed overview of the ethical considerations for unbundling services in immigration law. They identify the types of cases their office offers unbundled services for and which ones they don’t. They also discuss how unbundling their legal services has positively impacted their practice, and why they are now strong advocates for the unbundled legal services model. They share why it is critical to have a consistent source of quality prospective clients, especially for solo and small firms, and the important role Unbundled Attorney has played in the development of their own practice.
21 FEBRUARY 2018
Celebrating Our 50th Podcast Episode: A Review of the First 49 Episodes, Announcing Exciting Changes to Come, and Our Vision for the Long-Term Impact of Unbundled Services
As we prepare to launch our 50th podcast episode, Unbundled Attorney's CEO, Dave Aarons, takes a moment to review our show’s accomplishments during the past two years. He overviews the most popular topics from 49 previous podcast interviews. These include scaling up your practice, sales and client conversion strategies, automating and streamlining your practice with legal technology, and much more. Dave unveils new exciting updates to the podcast that will help you get to know our guests in a personal way, and connect with other lawyers in the Unbundled Attorney community. He explores the evolution of unbundled legal services during the past decade, including highlighting recent national trainings on unbundling and innovative new legal incubators that are helping to drive the expansion of unbundled services. Dave shares his vision for a new cooperative alliance of attorneys and legal professionals who will transform the accessibility of legal services in North America.
03 FEBRUARY 2018
Becoming an Effective Legal Coach: Understanding Your Client’s Decision-Making Process, Guidelines for Structuring Coaching Sessions, and Compassionate Communication with People of Faith
Jamie Manning is an Unbundled Attorney out of Columbus, OH who has a background working with the Legal Aid Society. When working with her legal aid clients she often only had a limited amount of time to help them with their case. As a result, she developed unique and creative teaching tools that would simply the court process for her clients and were very effective at helping them understand how to properly handle their case. When Jamie launched her own practice, she implemented many of these strategies during her client consultations and when providing unbundled legal services. Today she joins us to share the fundamentals of effective legal coaching. She provides guidelines for how to structure and bill for your coaching calls, tips to help clients remember and apply your advice, and the important points to include during each coaching session. Jamie is also a Christian lawyer and discusses how to communicate with Christian clients and people of faith to help them overcome their apprehension about filing for divorce.
19 JANUARY 2018
Modernizing Your Law Practice: Stepping Up to the Challenge of Adapting to the Complex World of Legal Technology
Mark Brinkworth explored a number of other professions before becoming an attorney. By the time he started his own practice in 2015, the internet, smartphones and legal technology were already making a substantial impact on the legal industry. Like many lawyers that didn’t grow up with these tools, adapting to this modern environment has been a real challenge for him. Today Mark joins us to talk about how he has modernized his law practice. He candidly shares how frustrating this transition has been at times, and how he overcame these challenges with support from the team at Unbundled Attorney. Mark provides a step-by-step walk-through of the tools he now uses, and shares how essential each of them has been to the growth of his practice. We also discuss how critical it is for lawyers to continue investing their time and energy into staying up to date on legal technology, even if they are initially reluctant to do so.
08 JANUARY 2018
A New Era of Immigration Lawyering: How Embracing Technology and Affordable Pay-As-You-Go Pricing Can Significantly Increase Profits and Accessibility to Legal Services
Originally from Trinidad, Jamila Little has always been passionate about immigration law. However, it took some time to take the plunge from the corporate world and start her own practice. Once she did, she committed herself to not only making great money but also serving as many clients as possible. During this interview Jamila shares how she implements legal technology to reduce the amount of time she personally spends on each case up to 75%. She also shares why eliminating an upfront retainer and allowing her clients to “pay-as-they-go” enables her to serve more clients and consistently bring in over $15,000 per month of additional revenue into her firm.
19 DECEMBER 2017
Launching a New Practice Straight Out of Law School: Overcoming Fear, Streamlining Intake, and Improving Access to Justice by Eliminating the Upfront Retainer
Lauren Kelley started her own practice two days after graduating law school. Fueled by Unbundled Attorney leads, Lauren acquired over 20 new paying clients in her first two months. During this period, she also built systems to streamline her intake and enrollment process. Today, she joins the show to walk us through what every new lawyer can expect when launching a new practice. We also discuss how Lauren has almost completely eliminated the need to charge an upfront retainer. She describes how making her services affordable and accessible for clients also makes them more profitable for her.
03 DECEMBER 2017
21st Century Mobile Lawyering: How to Utilize Legal Technology to Build a High Volume, Streamlined, and Location Independent Practice
Rebecca Fuller is part of a new era of lawyers that have embraced legal technology in order to build a highly efficient and streamlined practice. The cloud-based tools she uses have also enabled her to operate her practice from any location, any time without skipping a beat. Today Rebecca joins us to share the technology she uses and exactly how she has implemented them in her practice. This includes a complete walk-through of how each tool comes into play from the moment she receives each lead all the way through to the delivery of each service. We also discuss how she has leveraged technology to scale up her practice, enabling her to effectively serve a much higher volume clients.
17 NOVEMBER 2017
The Economics of Unbundling Your Estate Practice: Taking a Close Look at the Profitability of Flexible “Pay-As-You-Go” Fee Structures
Ross Tew is an estate attorney out of Dallas/Ft Worth, TX who believes in being flexible and taking a problem solving approach to the way he works for his clients. Today, Ross joins us to share the creative ways he works with clients. He describes how he breaks cases up into billable segments and allows clients to pay-as-they-go. He will also let clients in certain cases pay his fees out of the settlement of the estate. Let’s take a close look at how this degree of flexibility has improved the profitability of his practice. The results, as you will hear, are astounding.
04 NOVEMBER 2017
A Discussion with the Founder of Unbundled Legal Services, Forrest “Woody” Mosten: Exploring the History and Exciting Future of Unbundling
Considered to be the founder of the “Unbundled” concept, Forrest “Woody” Mosten has spent the last 20+ years advocating for the awareness and ethical acceptance of unbundled legal services. Today Woody joins us to share the background and history of unbundled legal services, and how it is positioned to have a tremendous impact on access to justice in the future. He gives us a fundamental understanding of what the core unbundled services offerings are, including examples of what he offers in his own practice. We share a ton of resources, websites, books, and training that help educate attorneys on how to ethically and effectively deliver unbundled services in their practice.
17 OCTOBER 2017
Automating Client Follow Up: How to Leverage Email Management Systems to Easily Stay in Touch with New Prospects and Clients
Every day clients are contacting your office to meet with you for consultations. Some of these clients retain your services right away, but what about the rest? Most law firms fail to follow up with prospects who do not call back or are not retained immediately. It is a task that often doesn’t get done because it takes too much time. What if there is a way to automatically stay in touch with these prospects at the click of a button? Today, Chicago, IL family law attorney, Robert Buchanan, joins our show and explains how lawyers can easily leverage email management systems and automate client follow up. By applying these systems, attorneys can stay connected with and ultimately be retained by clients they met days, weeks, or even months earlier. We also discuss valuable lessons Robert has learned when considering acquiring associate-attorneys and partners.
03 OCTOBER 2017
Delivering Unbundled Services Safely and Ethically: Guidelines for Retainer Agreements, Limited Appearances, and Being Proactive with Traditional Courts
When Thomas King started his own practice, he saw an opportunity in the market to provide assistance for clients trying to handle cases by themselves using the internet. Now with the help of Unbundled Attorney, Thomas built a thriving practice by delivering clients a full range of unbundled legal services. However, being an effective provider of unbundled services comes with its own challenges. Today, Thomas joins our show to help lawyers understand how to deliver unbundled options both ethically and effectively. We discuss how to structure limited-scope retainer agreements, as well as best practices for offering limited appearances. Thomas also provides some very practical advice for dealing with traditional courts and judges who may not be used to working with attorneys offering unbundled services.
16 SEPTEMBER 2017
The “Try It Before You Buy It” Enrollment Strategy: A Unique Sales Approach That Could Skyrocket Your Lead Conversion Rate
After working with Unbundled Attorney as a solo practitioner for over a year, Anthony Saunders decided to take a break to close up his practice and start working with a local Salt Lake City, UT law firm as an associate. When Anthony started working with us again he implemented a new sales strategy that enables him to consistently convert an astounding 80% or more of his leads into paying clients. What is even more impressive is 90% of those clients end up retaining him for full representation. Today Anthony joins us on the show to share exactly how he has been able to accomplish such incredible numbers, including his unique “try it before you buy it” approach to enrolling his clients. He also offers over 20 different unbundled service options, and he outlines what each of these options are and what he typically charges.
31 AUGUST 2017
Expand Your Practice into New Regions Using Contract Lawyers and a Virtual Client Enrollment, Intake, and Management System
After launching his practice early in 2017 in the Hudson Valley, NY, Alexander Keenan quickly expanded to serve the nearby metropolitan Albany, NY community despite the fact that he lives 2-3 hours away. After trying to manage the travel time involved, Alex decided to hire contract lawyers to serve his clients in those courts farthest from his office. The relationships he forged with his contract lawyers are so successful that Alex is now working on expanding his practice into the metro areas of Rochester, Syracuse, and Buffalo, NY. Today he joins us on the show to explain the process he uses to hire and train new contract lawyers, who are helping him to significantly expand the reach of his practice. He also discusses his “streamlined” virtual enrollment process utilizing technology that enables him to enroll and manage clients from literally anywhere in the world.
15 AUGUST 2017
Fundamentals of Closing the Deal: Sales Strategies That Help Solidify Relationships and Retain More Clients
New Jersey attorney Matt Rosen has the “sales gene.” Not just because his father was a successful corporate salesman, but because of his extensive background in sales and many years studying the art of building rapport with clients and closing the deal. Today Matt joins us on the show to discuss some of these core strategies, and how they have helped him consistently convert his leads into paying clients. We also discuss the many challenges of starting a new practice, investing in advertising with a limited budget, and how working the leads from Unbundled Attorney has helped him develop the knowledge and experience to overcome these barriers.
31 JULY 2017
Running a Leveraged Solo Practice from Home: Hiring Staff and Delegating Tasks, Adaptive Payment Options, and Enrolling Clients Over the Phone
Lisa Brown began working with Unbundled Attorney less than two years ago. During this time, she transitioned from handling 100% of her practice alone to hiring a team of trained and competent staff to support her. Today Lisa walks us through her procedure for successfully hiring and training new staff members, including what tasks you should delegate and which ones you should not. Lisa often works from home and she has developed systems that enable her to enroll the majority of her new leads over the phone, without the need for office appointments. She explains what these systems are, as well her unique approach to the first phone consultation with each lead.
18 JULY 2017
Experienced Social Worker Turned Practicing Attorney: Active Listening, Cultivating and Communicating Empathy, and Understanding the Lifetime Value of Each Client
Brian Picarello spent the first years of his professional life working as a social worker. After graduating law school in 2010 at the age of 38, Brian brings the years of experience working with clients in crisis situations to the practice of law. He explains how to become an effective active listener, including how to cultivate and communicate empathy with your clients. Brian has also been working with Unbundled Attorney since the day we launched in January of 2015, and has tracked his metrics and revenue from every lead he has received. He shares what his numbers are, and how understanding the long term, “lifetime” value of each client can inform your practice decisions and impact how you price your services.
03 JULY 2017
How to Compete in the DIY Internet Age: A Practical, Step-by-Step Guide to Delivering Unbundled Legal Services Efficiently and Profitably in Your Practice
There is no question that YouTube and the availability of “Do It Yourself” information online continues to have a significant impact on the legal profession. There are a lot more people nowadays who are handling their cases pro se, and this trend is likely to continue for years to come. Today, Brian Reidy joins us to talk about how attorneys can adapt to this shift in the marketplace by providing unbundled legal services. He provides examples of the types of unbundled options he offers, typical price points, as well as great advice on how to convey the value of these services to your clients. We also discuss ways to leverage technology and develop a “systems mindset” that builds a more efficient and cost-effective practice.
16 JUNE 2017
Automate and Streamline Your Practice: A Discussion of How Legal Technology is Transforming the Practice of Law with Michael Chasin, CEO of Lexicata
Michael Chasin joins us on the show to give an overview of Lexicata, an all-in-one CRM and client intake solution for lawyers, and how legal technology is impacting the practice of law. He outlines the primary features of Lexicata, and how lawyers are using them to streamline their intake and client conversion process. We announce Unbundled Attorney’s brand new integration with Lexicata, which enables lawyers to have our leads delivered directly into their Lexicata account in real-time. We also discuss how merging lead generation with powerful intake and practice management tools will help lawyers grow their practice tremendously, while enabling them to deliver services in a more efficient and cost effective manner.
03 JUNE 2017
Moving to a New City: How to Close Your Existing Practice and Start up a New One from Scratch, Tips for Hiring Staff, and the Benefits of Layaway Payments
Have you ever considered moving to another city, but haven’t because you are reluctant to start a new practice from scratch? Maybe you want to be closer to family, or live in your dream community, but the pull of existing clients and income makes it difficult to pull the trigger? Last year, Aaron Walsch, took a leap of faith and moved from Columbia, SC to Nashville, TN after building a successful practice for over a decade. Today, Aaron shows us how to wind down your existing practice and launch a new one in a different community. We also discuss the importance of hiring great staff, how lead generation helps you grow a new practice, and the value of offering a layaway payment option for your clients.
22 MAY 2017
How Cultivating a Deep Understanding of Your Clients’ Emotional, Cultural and Political Context Can Help You Deliver Exceptional Service and Build a More Profitable Practice
Originally from Cuba, Moises Kaba has been providing immigration, family law, and estate representation in southern Florida for over 30 years. Today, Moises joins us on the show to talk about the importance of cultivating an understanding of the cultural history and emotional fears of your clients. He explains how this empathy helps you become an exceptional communicator. This is one element of Moises’s three-part service philosophy which not only dictates how he relates to clients, but also determines the types of flexible payment options he offers. He breaks down the profitability of intelligently structured payment plans, and explains why so many attorneys not currently offering these options could be missing out on a tremendous amount of additional revenue.
06 MAY 2017
Starting a Brand New Law Firm After 18 Years of Practice: A Step-by-Step Walkthrough from Successful Launch to Expansion, Hiring Virtual Contract Lawyers, and Empathetic Pricing
After 18 years of practice, Maria Aguila decided to go back out on her own and start a new law firm. Today, Maria joins us on the show and walks us through the phases of growth and expansion she experienced during the successful launch of her new practice six months ago. She tells us why she hired a virtual assistant and virtual contract attorney to help build the new practice, and how she pays for their services. Maria also gives us a complete pricing breakdown and comparison between her full representation and Unbundled legal service options for immigration and family law. She explains the importance of cultivating empathy for the unique legal needs and special financial circumstances of your clients, and how that sensitivity will naturally give rise to implementation of flexible service options that meets clients’ needs affordably.
21 APRIL 2017
15 Years of Solo Practice in the Big Apple: Relating to an Ethnically Diverse Clientele, Tracking Key Metrics, and Effectively Leveraging Paralegals
David Zaslavsky has had his own solo family law practice in New York City for over 15 years. Today, he joins our show to share his insights about how he has learned to develop rapport and relate to people from a wide variety of ethnic backgrounds and personality types whom he encounters in NYC. David also shares his experiences from working with many lead generation companies through the years. He discusses how they compare to Unbundled Attorney, and he outlines some of the strategies he has found most successful. David talks about the high costs involved in running a practice in NYC, one of the most expensive business environments anywhere in the world. He also explains how he structures fees to ensure he provides affordable services for his clients, while still covering his high overhead.
09 APRIL 2017
Developing a Virtual Immigration Practice: Electronic Enrollments, Document Automation and Unbundled Immigration Services
After working as a public defender in Manhattan, NY and commuting for two hours each day, Vaneskha Wilson decided to move to Orlando with her family and start her own virtual immigration practice. Today she joins on the show to breakdown how she is able to enroll and deliver immigration services to the majority of her clients electronically, without having to meet them in person. This includes a walk-through of each step in the process from the initial call and enrollment, to how she leverages an online client portal and document automation technology to prepare and deliver the completed documents. Vaneskha also shares the unbundled and “pay-as-you-go” pricing options she offers, and the typical fees she charges for each service.
25 MARCH 2017
Strategies Developed from Fielding More Than 50 Leads a Week: Text Messaging, Layaway Payments, and Relating Well with Clients
Sean Lynch currently receives about 200 leads each month from Unbundled Attorney. Not only has he been receiving a high volume of leads since first starting back in September 2016, he converts over 40% of our leads into new paying clients. Today, Sean joins us on the show to share some of the strategies he has developed, as well as some creative payment options he offers that enable him to provide affordable services for so many of his leads. Sean explains when and how he offers “layaway” payments for clients who cannot afford his flexible up front retainer. He also shares some valuable lessons learned from his father that he uses to communicate effectively and relate well with clients.
12 MARCH 2017
Brian Winters’ experience while working for a big law firm included what he calls a “big retainer mentality.” Success there was measured by how large the initial retainer would be. After some convincing, Brian started offering more affordable services including unbundled “isolated task” work to his clients, and this change in his mentality and approach helped transform his practice. Today, Brian shares how he went about making this important change, the kinds of options he offers now, and how he talks about them with his clients. He also talks about his expansion into other parts of his state, and how he manages his mobile practice from the road.
25 FEBRUARY 2017
Deep Dive with Dave Aarons, CEO of Unbundled Attorney: How to Thrive in a Disrupted Legal Market and the Future of Unbundled Legal Services
In our previous episodes, Dave Aarons, CEO of Unbundled Attorney, interviews the guests on our show. Today, the tables are turned, and one of the previous guests from the podcast, Sou Bounlutay, interviews Dave, and gets to the bottom of what Unbundled Attorney is really all about. Dave talks about the major changes that have occurred in the legal industry over the past 30 years, and how attorneys can adapt their practice in order to grow and thrive in the new legal landscape. Dave also describes some of the underlying values of the attorneys he works with, and the unique way they relate to their clients, as well as his vision for the future of unbundled legal services.
13 FEBRUARY 2017
Estate Planning Strategies Learned from 36 Years of Practice: Pay-As-You-Go and Fixed Fees, Probate Advice, and the Importance of Cultivating Empathy for Grieving Clients
After over 36 years of legal practice, Robert Muehlenweg has developed a well-defined strategy that provides affordable and compassionate estate planning services for his clients. Today he joins us on the show to share some of the unique service options he has developed, including pay-as-you-go, fixed fees, full representation services, and how he prices these options. We talk about how he fields the estate leads we send him, including his approach to the initial consultation, and how it allows him to enroll many of his “new school” clients right over the phone. He also shares some of the emotional skills of estate planning and probate, and how important it is to relate to clients in an empathic and sensitive manner.
27 JANUARY 2017
How to Relocate a Law Practice to a New Region: Creating Relationships with Local Courts, Bartering with Clients, and Building an Efficient Firm
Before Charles Skinner became an attorney, he worked as a machinist for over 10 years. That experience taught him a lot about how to streamline processes and build an efficient business model. Today, Charles shares how he transferred this approach to his law practice by building systems that streamline workflows. We also explore how he was able to successfully relocate his law practice from El Paso to Dallas, TX. He examines some of the mistakes he made and shares valuable lessons learned along the way. He also talks about the alternative fee arrangements he has implemented with his clients, such as bartering his services for assets or property, as well as some strategies he has developed in his mediation practice.
13 JANUARY 2017
Andrew Burgess is 9 months out of law school and has already built a thriving and successful solo practice. This growth is largely fueled by a high volume of Unbundled Attorney leads, his effectiveness in fielding those leads, and the affordable unbundled options he offers his clients. Today, Andrew shares the strategies he has implemented to make contact with almost every lead he talks to, and he provides a specific, detailed analysis of the economics of unbundling. He makes a very strong case to attorneys that by offering unbundled options they can provide valuable services to lower income families and still make a ton of money in the process.
01 JANUARY 2017
Chronicling the Journey From a New Solo Practice to a Small Law Firm: Limited Appearances, Hiring Contract Lawyers, and Scaling Up a Practice
After many years working as a prosecuting attorney and then as a contract lawyer for a firm on the east coast, David Gross decided to start his own practice out of Vancouver, WA, in March of 2015. In this episode David chronicles his firm’s growth from solo practitioner and “wearing all the hats,” to the small firm he has now, along with the many challenges he has overcome along the way. He shares valuable insights on the best practices for offering limited appearances, including what pitfalls to avoid. He also gives some very practical advice on how to hire contract lawyers and scale from solo practitioner to a small law firm.
16 DECEMBER 2016
Building Blocks for Great Relationships with Clients, Mobile-Lawyering, and Strategies to Convert Estate Leads
Bill Fix didn’t become a lawyer straight out of college. Instead, he worked in sales and as an investment advisor before enrolling in law school. These experiences taught him valuable lessons that later influenced how he manages his practice. Today, Bill shares many of these valuable lessons, including how to relate well and communicate effectively with clients. We discuss mobile lawyering, how to build a law practice from home, and strategies he has developed to call and convert estate leads effectively.
05 DECEMBER 2016
Lessons from 50 years of Practicing Law: Empathetic Listening, Limited Scope, and the Disrupted Legal Market
Richard A. Shannon is an exceptional attorney with over 50 years of experience. After studying liberal arts and graduating from UT School of Law, he served as an Assistant Attorney General of Texas and Special Counsel to the Commissioner of Insurance, before starting his private practice in family law over 20 years ago. Today Richard joins us on the show to share his broad perspective on the changes that have occurred in the legal marketplace during the past 10-20 years. He explains ways that attorneys may need to adapt in order to continue to succeed. He also discusses practical strategies to improve how you serve your clients, including empathetic listening, limited scope representation, and the true meaning behind being a “counselor” at law.
18 NOVEMBER 2016
Starting a Solo Practice in Your Forties: Embracing Tech, Leveraging an Assistant, and Flexible Payment Plans
Kathy Orr has been practicing family law for over 15 years, and what makes her stand out from our other guests is that she took up the practice of law in her forties. After graduating magna cum laude, besting her younger classmates, she decided to start a solo practice right out of law school. Today, Kathy joins us and gives some practical tips for new lawyers. She also highlights the importance of having an assistant, and explains how her payment plans have helped increase monthly cash flow and serve more clients.
04 NOVEMBER 2016
Rhonda Telford Naidu has been an Unbundled provider attorney out of Oklahoma City, OK for about 3 months. During this time her client base has grown from 9 active clients to 51 which has required her to hire two new attorneys. She is also working on opening new offices that will allow her firm to expand to serve the entire state of Oklahoma. Today, she and her partner/office manager, Jayshree, walk us through how they have scaled their practice so quickly. They also give us a very convincing argument for why it makes both moral and financial sense for attorneys to offer payment plans for their clients.
21 OCTOBER 2016
How Offering “Pay-As-You-Go” Options Can Dramatically Increase the Number of Clients You Can Profitably Serve
Barbara Rogachevsky has been an Unbundled provider attorney out of Akron, Ohio, for over two-and-a-half years now. Today Barbara shares the types of unbundled and “pay-as-you-go” options she offers that can fit into the budget of almost any client she works with. She explains how she uses the script to determine her client’s legal needs, financial budget, and how to formulate a “plan” to help them accomplish their goals. She also shares a unique “risk-free” offer for her clients to meet with her for the initial consultation that allows them to feel comfortable taking the next step; while at the same time she screens out clients that don’t value her time.
08 OCTOBER 2016
Tera Lee is a long-time unbundled provider attorney based in San Bernardino, CA who has applied best practices and strategies he learned from his background in sales to calling leads. Today Tera joins our show to discuss the importance of embracing sales as a critical component of building a successful law practice, and how to develop systems to consistently improve your sales process over time. He also shares many of the effective sales tactics he has developed, including how to completely eliminate “no-shows” from your practice without having to charge a fee to secure an appointment.
23 SEPTEMBER 2016
Streamlining Your Enrollment Process: Electronic Payments, Online Client Intake, and Creative Unbundling
Obreziah Bullard is an unbundled provider attorney out of Atlanta, GA that converts about 75% of the leads she receives into paying clients. That’s an impressive conversion rate, but even more impressive is the fact that 98% of these converted leads retained her services over the phone, without ever meeting her in person. Today, she shares how she has used technology to develop a streamlined electronic enrollment process, and walks us through some very unique and creative unbundled options that have never been divulged on the show before.
09 SEPTEMBER 2016
Building a Law Practice from Home: Virtual Offices, Legal Tech, and Enrolling Clients Over the Phone
Zoe Garvin joins our show today and shares her journey from college graduate to opening her own solo practice, including resources that helped her make the transition. She has also been able to generate over $10,000 in revenue from Unbundled leads in her first two weeks. Her success is even more remarkable because one-third of her Unbundled clients enrolled over the phone, without ever meeting her in person, and she shares the exact process she follows to accomplish this.
30 AUGUST 2016
Immigration and Family Law Attorney, Austin Andenmatten, sole practitioner at the Law Offices of Austin Andenmatten, joins our show today and shares his success story after opening his practice just a couple years ago. Austin became certified as a Bar Advocate in 2014, graduating with honors from Suffolk University School of Law. After graduating law school, Austin served as a public defender prior to expanding his practice area and today he serves clients throughout the commonwealth of Massachusetts. He has achieved significant success and impressive conversion rates since he began using Unbundled leads to grow his practice. Today, Austin shares the methods he uses for converting those leads into paying clients and the marketing strategy he employs to great effect by using Unbundled Attorney leads.
13 AUGUST 2016
In this episode we interview provider attorney, Jacob Sapochnick, who shares how he built a huge following on social media, including over 130,000 fans on his Facebook page. He describes how leveraging legal tech platforms and cloud computing helped automate and streamline his practice. Jacob shares valuable insights on why it is critically important for firms to leverage legal technology in order to stay competitive.
29 JULY 2016
Mastering the Consultation: The Sales Strategy that Generated $250k from Unbundled Leads in a Single Year
In this episode we interview provider attorney, Matthew Beach, who built a thriving practice and generated over $250k in revenue last year from the Unbundled Attorney leads he received alone. Matt shares details of the process he uses to convert 50% of his leads into paying clients. Matt has an impressive strategy that completely eliminates no show appointments, and he explains how to leverage valuable time through the use of contracted attorneys.
15 JULY 2016
In this episode we interview provider attorney, Ardy Pirnia. Fueled by a high volume of Unbundled leads, Ardy has grown his solo practitioner law firm into a successful practice with 3 paralegals, 3 employees and tens of thousands in monthly revenue in six months. Ardy shares how he achieved his success through the use of internet leads, and explains the core strategies that have laid the foundation for the extraordinarily rapid growth of his firm.
01 JULY 2016
In this episode we interview provider attorney, Deborah Roffman, who provides her clients flat rate quotes for selected legal services in her practice. We discuss the reasons why she introduced flat rate price options and how it has changed her practice. Deborah explains why it works for the benefit of her clients, and shares tips and strategies for when and how to offer flat rates.
17 JUNE 2016
In this episode we interview provider attorney, Michele Bernard, who shows you how to bring a holistic philosophy into our practice as attorneys. Michele explains how this unique approach impacts the way she serves her client relationships. We also discuss the impact empowering attorneys nationwide to offer alternative resolution strategies and unbundled legal services can have on our communities and children.
04 JUNE 2016
In this episode we interview Robert Manson, who is an Unbundled Attorney in Minneapolis, MN. Robert has received over a thousand leads and expanded his practice throughout the state of Minnesota. He shares the strategies and best practices which have enabled him to serve a high volume of clients, many of whom are 2 hours or further from his office.
20 MAY 2016
In this episode we interview provider attorney, Marsha Stiles. She has built a thriving practice that serves the three corners of Missouri. Marsha takes us through the process she has used to expand her practice throughout the state. We discuss creative ways she has developed to expand referrals and serve more clients, including offering unbundled legal services, in-home appointments, and other “outside the box” strategies.
06 MAY 2016
In this episode we interview provider attorney, Michael Greenstein. Michael walks us through the process he has developed using internet leads to help build his practice. He also reveals the secrets to the success he has had with unbundled legal services over many years including specifics on how to deliver these options to clients.
22 APRIL 2016
In this episode we interview provider attorney, Sou Bounlutay. Sou achieved a remarkable turnaround in results after making an important shift in understanding her role as an attorney and service provider for her clients.
13 APRIL 2016
In this episode we interview Marcus Torigian, who is an Unbundled Attorney in Fresno, CA. Marcus identifies the most important differences between immigration and family law, and he explains differences in strategy and process he uses to effectively service each type of lead.
12 APRIL 2016
In this episode Albuquerque, MN attorney Les Sandoval explains how he consistently converts 50% of his leads by offering service options that are tailored to the needs of his clients.
06 APRIL 2016
In this episode we interview Brad Latta, who is an Unbundled Attorney in Birmingham, AL. Learn from one of our long term veteran attorneys, as we explore the best practices for contacting leads, setting appointments, and the types of flexible payment options you can offer to make it easier for clients to purchase your services.