Podcast: Unbundled Attorney Mastermind

In the Unbundled Attorney Mastermind podcast, we interview our provider attorneys and leading experts in the legal industry to identify best practices for fielding internet generated leads. We also discuss how to ethically and effectively offer unbundled legal services and other affordable options in your legal services practice.



18 JULY 2017

Experienced Social Worker Turned Practicing Attorney: Active Listening, Cultivating and Communicating Empathy, and Understanding the Lifetime Value of Each Client

Episode 36: Experienced Social Worker Turned Practicing Attorney: Active Listening, Cultivating and Communicating Empathy, and Understanding the Lifetime Value of Each Client

Brian Picarello spent the first years of his professional life working as a social worker. After graduating law school in 2010 at the age of 38, Brian brings the years of experience working with clients in crisis situations to the practice of law. He explains how to become an effective active listener, including how to cultivate and communicate empathy with your clients. Brian has also been working with Unbundled Attorney since the day we launched in January of 2015, and has tracked his metrics and revenue from every lead he has received. He shares what his numbers are, and how understanding the long term, “lifetime” value of each client can inform your practice decisions and impact how you price your services.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

  • The fundamentals of active listening, and the difference between connecting with people versus trying the sell a product
  • How to cultivate and communicate empathy for the emotional challenges your clients are facing
  • Valuable lessons Brian has learned from other guests on the Unbundled Attorney Mastermind Podcast
  • The importance of attorneys making the initial calls to their leads, and the only way to have staff make the call for you if you are unavailable to do so
  • The two categories of leads (instant gratification vs. legitimate issues), how to identify each category and how Brian’s process differs for each type of lead
  • Brian’s revenue, contact and conversion rate numbers from 2.5 years of fielding leads from Unbundled Attorney
  • Why analyzing his numbers and the long term value of each lead was an influential factor in Brian's decision to shift away from an “hourly retainer” mentality and start to offering more affordable pricing options
  • The real meaning behind “lifetime value” of each client, and how this understanding can impact the way you run your practice
  • How Brian offers limited appearances, including how he sets appropriate expectations with his clients
  • The percentage of Brian’s business that comes from referral income, and why so many lawyers fail to take this revenue into account when evaluating a lead generation service
  • How Unbundled Attorney compares to other lead generation companies he has worked with
  • The biggest complaint client’s have about lawyers, and how you can prevent this from happening in your practice
  • The value of understanding your local courts, both in your ability to be an effective lawyer, and as a selling point to your clients
  • And much more...

If you enjoy this podcast, please head over to iTunes, subscribe to the show, and leave us a review. We love hearing from our listeners and look forward to reading your feedback!

For more information about Unbundled Attorney and how our Lead Generation services help grow your practice, visit: https://www.unbundledattorney.com


03 JULY 2017

How to Compete in the DIY Internet Age: A Practical, Step-by-Step Guide to Delivering Unbundled Legal Services Efficiently and Profitably in Your Practice

There is no question that YouTube and the availability of “Do It Yourself” information online continues to have a significant impact on the legal profession. There are a lot more people nowadays who are handling their cases pro se, and this trend is likely to continue for years to come. Today, Brian Reidy joins us to talk about how attorneys can adapt to this shift in the marketplace by providing unbundled legal services. He provides examples of the types of unbundled options he offers, typical price points, as well as great advice on how to convey the value of these services to your clients. We also discuss ways to leverage technology and develop a “systems mindset” that builds a more efficient and cost-effective practice.


16 JUNE 2017

Automate and Streamline Your Practice: A Discussion of How Legal Technology is Transforming the Practice of Law with Michael Chasin, CEO of Lexicata

Michael Chasin joins us on the show to give an overview of Lexicata, an all-in-one CRM and client intake solution for lawyers, and how legal technology is impacting the practice of law. He outlines the primary features of Lexicata, and how lawyers are using them to streamline their intake and client conversion process. We announce Unbundled Attorney’s brand new integration with Lexicata, which enables lawyers to have our leads delivered directly into their Lexicata account in real-time. We also discuss how merging lead generation with powerful intake and practice management tools will help lawyers grow their practice tremendously, while enabling them to deliver services in a more efficient and cost effective manner.


03 JUNE 2017

Moving to a New City: How to Close Your Existing Practice and Start up a New One from Scratch, The Importance of Hiring Staff, and Benefits of Layaway Payments

Have you ever considered moving to another city, but haven’t because you are reluctant to start a new practice from scratch? Maybe you want to be closer to family, or live in your dream community, but the pull of existing clients and income makes it difficult to pull the trigger? Last year, Aaron Walsch, took a leap of faith and moved from Columbia, SC to Nashville, TN after building a successful practice for over a decade. Today, Aaron shows us how to wind down your existing practice and launch a new one in a different community. We also discuss the importance of hiring great staff, how lead generation helps you grow a new practice, and the value of offering a layaway payment option for your clients.


22 MAY 2017

How Cultivating a Deep Understanding of Your Clients’ Emotional, Cultural and Political Context Can Help You Deliver Exceptional Service and Build a More Profitable Practice

Originally from Cuba, Moises Kaba has been providing immigration, family law, and estate representation in southern Florida for over 30 years. Today, Moises joins us on the show to talk about the importance of cultivating an understanding of the cultural history and emotional fears of your clients. He explains how this empathy helps you become an exceptional communicator. This is one element of Moises’s three-part service philosophy which not only dictates how he relates to clients, but also determines the types of flexible payment options he offers. He breaks down the profitability of intelligently structured payment plans, and explains why so many attorneys not currently offering these options could be missing out on a tremendous amount of additional revenue.


06 MAY 2017

Starting a Brand New Law Firm After 18 Years of Practice: A Step-by-Step Walkthrough from Successful Launch to Expansion, Hiring Virtual Contract Lawyers, and Empathetic Pricing

After 18 years of practice, Maria Aguila decided to go back out on her own and start a new law firm. Today, Maria joins us on the show and walks us through the phases of growth and expansion she experienced during the successful launch of her new practice six months ago. She tells us why she hired a virtual assistant and virtual contract attorney to help build the new practice, and how she pays for their services. Maria also gives us a complete pricing breakdown and comparison between her full representation and Unbundled legal service options for immigration and family law. She explains the importance of cultivating empathy for the unique legal needs and special financial circumstances of your clients, and how that sensitivity will naturally give rise to implementation of flexible service options that meets clients’ needs affordably.


21 APRIL 2017

15 Years of Solo Practice in the Big Apple: Relating to an Ethnically Diverse Clientele, Tracking Key Metrics, and Effectively Leveraging Paralegals

David Zaslavsky has had his own solo family law practice in New York City for over 15 years. Today, he joins our show to share his insights about how he has learned to develop rapport and relate to people from a wide variety of ethnic backgrounds and personality types whom he encounters in NYC. David also shares his experiences from working with many lead generation companies through the years. He discusses how they compare to Unbundled Attorney, and he outlines some of the strategies he has found most successful. David talks about the high costs involved in running a practice in NYC, one of the most expensive business environments anywhere in the world. He also explains how he structures fees to ensure he provides affordable services for his clients, while still covering his high overhead.


09 APRIL 2017

Developing a Virtual Immigration Practice: Electronic Enrollments, Document Automation and Unbundled Immigration Services

After working as a public defender in Manhattan, NY and commuting for two hours each day, Vaneskha Wilson decided to move to Orlando with her family and start her own virtual immigration practice. Today she joins on the show to breakdown how she is able to enroll and deliver immigration services to the majority of her clients electronically, without having to meet them in person. This includes a walk-through of each step in the process from the initial call and enrollment, to how she leverages an online client portal and document automation technology to prepare and deliver the completed documents. Vaneskha also shares the unbundled and “pay-as-you-go” pricing options she offers, and the typical fees she charges for each service.


25 MARCH 2017

Strategies Developed from Fielding More Than 50 Leads a Week: Text Messaging, Layaway Payments, and Relating Well with Clients

Sean Lynch currently receives about 200 leads each month from Unbundled Attorney. Not only has he been receiving a high volume of leads since first starting back in September 2016, he converts over 40% of our leads into new paying clients. Today, Sean joins us on the show to share some of the strategies he has developed, as well as some creative payment options he offers that enable him to provide affordable services for so many of his leads. Sean explains when and how he offers “layaway” payments for clients who cannot afford his flexible up front retainer. He also shares some valuable lessons learned from his father that he uses to communicate effectively and relate well with clients.


12 MARCH 2017

How Shifting Away from a “Big Retainer Mentality” Can Transform Your Firm

Brian Winters’ experience while working for a big law firm included what he calls a “big retainer mentality.” Success there was measured by how large the initial retainer would be. After some convincing, Brian started offering more affordable services including unbundled “isolated task” work to his clients, and this change in his mentality and approach helped transform his practice. Today, Brian shares how he went about making this important change, the kinds of options he offers now, and how he talks about them with his clients. He also talks about his expansion into other parts of his state, and how he manages his mobile practice from the road.


25 FEBRUARY 2017

Deep Dive with Dave Aarons, CEO of Unbundled Attorney: How to Thrive in a Disrupted Legal Market and the Future of Unbundled Legal Services

In our previous episodes, Dave Aarons, CEO of Unbundled Attorney, interviews the guests on our show. Today, the tables are turned, and one of the previous guests from the podcast, Sou Bounlutay, interviews Dave, and gets to the bottom of what Unbundled Attorney is really all about. Dave talks about the major changes that have occurred in the legal industry over the past 30 years, and how attorneys can adapt their practice in order to grow and thrive in the new legal landscape. Dave also describes some of the underlying values of the attorneys he works with, and the unique way they relate to their clients, as well as his vision for the future of unbundled legal services.


13 FEBRUARY 2017

Estate Planning Strategies Learned from 36 Years of Practice: Pay-As-You-Go and Fixed Fees, Probate Advice, and the Importance of Cultivating Empathy for Grieving Clients

After over 36 years of legal practice, Robert Muehlenweg has developed a well-defined strategy that provides affordable and compassionate estate planning services for his clients. Today he joins us on the show to share some of the unique service options he has developed, including pay-as-you-go, fixed fees, full representation services, and how he prices these options. We talk about how he fields the estate leads we send him, including his approach to the initial consultation, and how it allows him to enroll many of his “new school” clients right over the phone. He also shares some of the emotional skills of estate planning and probate, and how important it is to relate to clients in an empathic and sensitive manner.


27 JANUARY 2017

How to Relocate a Law Practice to a New Region: Creating Relationships with Local Courts, Bartering with Clients, and Building an Efficient Firm

Before Charles Skinner became an attorney, he worked as a machinist for over 10 years. That experience taught him a lot about how to streamline processes and build an efficient business model. Today, Charles shares how he transferred this approach to his law practice by building systems that streamline workflows. We also explore how he was able to successfully relocate his law practice from El Paso to Dallas, TX. He examines some of the mistakes he made and shares valuable lessons learned along the way. He also talks about the alternative fee arrangements he has implemented with his clients, such as bartering his services for assets or property, as well as some strategies he has developed in his mediation practice.


13 JANUARY 2017

Launching a New Solo Practice: From Law School Graduate to 65 New Paying Clients in 3 Months

Andrew Burgess is 9 months out of law school and has already built a thriving and successful solo practice. This growth is largely fueled by a high volume of Unbundled Attorney leads, his effectiveness in fielding those leads, and the affordable unbundled options he offers his clients. Today, Andrew shares the strategies he has implemented to make contact with almost every lead he talks to, and he provides a specific, detailed analysis of the economics of unbundling. He makes a very strong case to attorneys that by offering unbundled options they can provide valuable services to lower income families and still make a ton of money in the process.


01 JANUARY 2017

Chronicling the Journey From a New Solo Practice to a Small Law Firm: Limited Appearances, Hiring Contract Lawyers, and Scaling Up a Practice

After many years working as a prosecuting attorney and then as a contract lawyer for a firm on the east coast, David Gross decided to start his own practice out of Vancouver, WA, in March of 2015. In this episode David chronicles his firm’s growth from solo practitioner and “wearing all the hats,” to the small firm he has now, along with the many challenges he has overcome along the way. He shares valuable insights on the best practices for offering limited appearances, including what pitfalls to avoid. He also gives some very practical advice on how to hire contract lawyers and scale from solo practitioner to a small law firm.


16 DECEMBER 2016

Building Blocks for Great Relationships with Clients, Mobile-Lawyering, and Strategies to Convert Estate Leads

Bill Fix didn’t become a lawyer straight out of college. Instead, he worked in sales and as an investment advisor before enrolling in law school. These experiences taught him valuable lessons that later influenced how he manages his practice. Today, Bill shares many of these valuable lessons, including how to relate well and communicate effectively with clients. We discuss mobile lawyering, how to build a law practice from home, and strategies he has developed to call and convert estate leads effectively.


05 DECEMBER 2016

Lessons from 50 years of Practicing Law: Empathetic Listening, Limited Scope, and the Disrupted Legal Market

Richard A. Shannon is an exceptional attorney with over 50 years of experience. After studying liberal arts and graduating from UT School of Law, he served as an Assistant Attorney General of Texas and Special Counsel to the Commissioner of Insurance, before starting his private practice in family law over 20 years ago. Today Richard joins us on the show to share his broad perspective on the changes that have occurred in the legal marketplace during the past 10-20 years. He explains ways that attorneys may need to adapt in order to continue to succeed. He also discusses practical strategies to improve how you serve your clients, including empathetic listening, limited scope representation, and the true meaning behind being a “counselor” at law.


18 NOVEMBER 2016

Starting a Solo Practice in Your Forties: Embracing Tech, Leveraging an Assistant, and Flexible Payment Plans

Kathy Orr has been practicing family law for over 15 years, and what makes her stand out from our other guests is that she took up the practice of law in her forties. After graduating magna cum laude, besting her younger classmates, she decided to start a solo practice right out of law school. Today, Kathy joins us and gives some practical tips for new lawyers. She also highlights the importance of having an assistant, and explains how her payment plans have helped increase monthly cash flow and serve more clients.


04 NOVEMBER 2016

Scaling Up Your Practice: How to Expand From Solo Practitioner to Small Law Firm in Under 3 Months

Rhonda Telford Naidu has been an Unbundled provider attorney out of Oklahoma City, OK for about 3 months. During this time her client base has grown from 9 active clients to 51 which has required her to hire two new attorneys. She is also working on opening new offices that will allow her firm to expand to serve the entire state of Oklahoma. Today, she and her partner/office manager, Jayshree, walk us through how they have scaled their practice so quickly. They also give us a very convincing argument for why it makes both moral and financial sense for attorneys to offer payment plans for their clients.


21 OCTOBER 2016

How Offering “Pay-As-You-Go” Options Can Dramatically Increase the Number of Clients You Can Profitably Serve

Barbara Rogachevsky has been an Unbundled provider attorney out of Akron, Ohio, for over two-and-a-half years now. Today Barbara shares the types of unbundled and “pay-as-you-go” options she offers that can fit into the budget of almost any client she works with. She explains how she uses the script to determine her client’s legal needs, financial budget, and how to formulate a “plan” to help them accomplish their goals. She also shares a unique “risk-free” offer for her clients to meet with her for the initial consultation that allows them to feel comfortable taking the next step; while at the same time she screens out clients that don’t value her time.


08 OCTOBER 2016

Proven Sales Strategies to Convert More Leads and Eliminate No-Shows

Tera Lee is a long-time unbundled provider attorney based in San Bernardino, CA who has applied best practices and strategies he learned from his background in sales to calling leads. Today Tera joins our show to discuss the importance of embracing sales as a critical component of building a successful law practice, and how to develop systems to consistently improve your sales process over time. He also shares many of the effective sales tactics he has developed, including how to completely eliminate “no-shows” from your practice without having to charge a fee to secure an appointment.


23 SEPTEMBER 2016

Streamlining Your Enrollment Process: Electronic Payments, Online Client Intake, and Creative Unbundling

Obreziah Bullard is an unbundled provider attorney out of Atlanta, GA that converts about 75% of the leads she receives into paying clients. That’s an impressive conversion rate, but even more impressive is the fact that 98% of these converted leads retained her services over the phone, without ever meeting her in person. Today, she shares how she has used technology to develop a streamlined electronic enrollment process, and walks us through some very unique and creative unbundled options that have never been divulged on the show before.


09 SEPTEMBER 2016

Building a Law Practice from Home: Virtual Offices, Legal Tech, and Enrolling Clients Over the Phone

Zoe Garvin joins our show today and shares her journey from college graduate to opening her own solo practice, including resources that helped her make the transition. She has also been able to generate over $10,000 in revenue from Unbundled leads in her first two weeks. Her success is even more remarkable because one-third of her Unbundled clients enrolled over the phone, without ever meeting her in person, and she shares the exact process she follows to accomplish this.


30 AUGUST 2016

The Modern Solo Practice: How to Leverage Internet Leads to Ramp Up a New Law Firm

Immigration and Family Law Attorney, Austin Andenmatten, sole practitioner at the Law Offices of Austin Andenmatten, joins our show today and shares his success story after opening his practice just a couple years ago. Austin became certified as a Bar Advocate in 2014, graduating with honors from Suffolk University School of Law. After graduating law school, Austin served as a public defender prior to expanding his practice area and today he serves clients throughout the commonwealth of Massachusetts. He has achieved significant success and impressive conversion rates since he began using Unbundled leads to grow his practice. Today, Austin shares the methods he uses for converting those leads into paying clients and the marketing strategy he employs to great effect by using Unbundled Attorney leads.


13 AUGUST 2016

Expanding Your Reach on Social Media: Facebook, Live Streaming, and the Future of Legal Tech

In this episode we interview provider attorney, Jacob Sapochnick, who shares how he built a huge following on social media, including over 130,000 fans on his Facebook page. He describes how leveraging legal tech platforms and cloud computing helped automate and streamline his practice. Jacob shares valuable insights on why it is critically important for firms to leverage legal technology in order to stay competitive.


29 JULY 2016

Mastering the Consultation: The Sales Strategy that Generated $250k from Unbundled Leads in a Single Year

In this episode we interview provider attorney, Matthew Beach, who built a thriving practice and generated over $250k in revenue last year from the Unbundled Attorney leads he received alone. Matt shares details of the process he uses to convert 50% of his leads into paying clients. Matt has an impressive strategy that completely eliminates no show appointments, and he explains how to leverage valuable time through the use of contracted attorneys.


15 JULY 2016

From Brand New Practice to Tens of Thousands in Monthly Revenue in Six Months

In this episode we interview provider attorney, Ardy Pirnia. Fueled by a high volume of Unbundled leads, Ardy has grown his solo practitioner law firm into a successful practice with 3 paralegals, 3 employees and tens of thousands in monthly revenue in six months. Ardy shares how he achieved his success through the use of internet leads, and explains the core strategies that have laid the foundation for the extraordinarily rapid growth of his firm.


01 JULY 2016

Exploring the Practical Benefits of Flat Rate Billing

In this episode we interview provider attorney, Deborah Roffman, who provides her clients flat rate quotes for selected legal services in her practice. We discuss the reasons why she introduced flat rate price options and how it has changed her practice. Deborah explains why it works for the benefit of her clients, and shares tips and strategies for when and how to offer flat rates.


17 JUNE 2016

Bringing a Holistic Approach to the Practice of Law

In this episode we interview provider attorney, Michele Bernard, who shows you how to bring a holistic philosophy into our practice as attorneys. Michele explains how this unique approach impacts the way she serves her client relationships. We also discuss the impact empowering attorneys nationwide to offer alternative resolution strategies and unbundled legal services can have on our communities and children.


04 JUNE 2016

Expert Tips: Lessons and Strategies Learned By Fielding Over 1000 Leads

In this episode we interview provider attorney, Robert Manson, who has received over a thousand leads and expanded his practice throughout the state of Minnesota. Robert shares the strategies and best practices which have enabled him to serve a high volume of clients, many of whom are 2 hours or further from his office.


20 MAY 2016

How to Expand Your Practice Statewide, Serve More Clients, and Cultivate Referrals

In this episode we interview provider attorney, Marsha Stiles. She has built a thriving practice that serves the three corners of Missouri. Marsha takes us through the process she has used to expand her practice throughout the state. We discuss creative ways she has developed to expand referrals and serve more clients, including offering unbundled legal services, in-home appointments, and other “outside the box” strategies.


06 MAY 2016

How to Build a Thriving Practice Using Internet Leads and Unbundled Legal Services

In this episode we interview provider attorney, Michael Greenstein. Michael walks us through the process he has developed using internet leads to help build his practice. He also reveals the secrets to the success he has had with unbundled legal services over many years including specifics on how to deliver these options to clients.


22 APRIL 2016

The Turnaround Episode: How One Shift in Approach Can Dramatically Transform Your Results

In this episode we interview provider attorney, Sou Bounlutay. Sou achieved a remarkable turnaround in results after making an important shift in understanding her role as an attorney and service provider for her clients.


13 APRIL 2016

Immigration vs. Family Law Leads: Key Strategies for Converting Both

In this episode we interview provider attorney Marcus Torigian. Marcus identifies the most important differences between immigration and family law, and he explains differences in strategy and process he uses to effectively service each type of lead.


12 APRIL 2016

How Provider Attorney Les Sandoval Converts 50% of His Leads

In this episode provider attorney Les Sandoval explains how he consistently converts 50% of his leads by offering service options that are tailored to the needs of his clients.


06 APRIL 2016

Fundamentals of Fielding Leads and Offering Flexible Payment Options

In this episode we interview Birmingham, AL provider attorney Brad Latta. Learn from one of our veteran attorneys, as we explore the best practices for contacting leads, setting appointments, and the types of flexible payment options you can offer to make it easier for clients to purchase your services.